State of The Culture (w/ Dr. Denise Davis-Maye)

Hi Tribe!

In this episode we reflect with Dr. Denise Davis-Maye on the state of the community after more than a year into a global pandemic. We reflect on the struggles as well as the triumphs of the community over 2020-2021.

Additionally, listeners get the opportunity to learn about Dr. Davis-Maye's background including her extensive 30 year career in social work. She has held many roles within the field, namely as an educator and even spanning globally. Together we take a pulse on where the community is headed and ways in which we can continue to foster a positive outcome for us all.

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Peace & Love,
SB 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

Welcome welcome everyone. What's good. This is the Afro healing podcast and I am your host, Sean Blake today's podcast features no other than my family. My auntie actually, Dr. Denise Davis, may. She is a doctor in social work and today's podcast will essentially be a town hall state of the culture for the community, nothing too serious, but just a conversation that I believe is needed to kind of set a foundation for the dialogue that we'll have throughout this season. Um, and the many podcast episodes to come. We'll talk about the state of the culture, the state of, you know, the pan African community as her work relates to social work. We'll incorporate that as well. You'll get to know her a bit more and her history and social work and what she's doing even till this day. Um, and most of all, what I hope you'll all gain are ideas and tools that we can implement immediately and begin, uh, essentially rebuilding our communities as they've been affected by the pandemic. So to kick that off, I will begin with introducing my aunt so that you have a better understanding of her and her background and what this conversation will entail. Dr. Denise Davis may is the department of social work chairperson at the oldest public, historically black college or university in Alabama, Alabama state university. She's a licensed clinical social worker and native new Yorker with over 30 years of experience in social work practice. And 21 years in social work education, Dr. Davis may is an alumna of Clark Atlanta university. She completed graduate work at hunter college of the city university of New York, and the university of Alabama, her research interests include the wellbeing and cultural community and familial impact on the emotional development of adolescent girls of African ancestry, the history of social welfare policy development and the global implications of leadership development of women and girls of color. Thank you so much Dr. Denise Davis Mae for joining us on today's podcast. How are you? Thank you so much. Absolutely. Um, I'm really looking forward to this conversation, uh, and just talking about the work that you've done in your 30 year career, um, and the work that you're still doing today. So before we get into that, give the listeners a bit of a background on yourself. You know, you're from New York originally. Uh, what was your upbringing like? What was like in New York during those times?

Speaker 2: 3:02

So, um, I was raised primarily in the Bronx. I was born in Manhattan. Um, my mom is a Harlem, so we have deep connections in Harlem. Uh, but for most of my life, we lived in the south Bronx, um, and lived in and around, um, impoverished and working class folk. And so when people talk about the south Bronx, you know, the only thing they remember from the seventies is the south south Bronx burning. But what I remember, um, our family and the integration of community and, um, how, um, diasporically diverse, um, our community was, um, in terms of people, of, of, um, Taino, um, and African ancestry from Puerto Rico, people from, um, various Caribbean countries, um, from Beijing's to Jamaicans, to, um, Dominicans, not so much, um, Dominican's in my community, but certainly there were a few sprinkled, but there were also Cubans and, and there were still, um, during my childhood, uh, Jewish Americans and Italian Americans living in the community. So, um, I don't know that I recognize then, um, how much that influenced, uh, who we all were. Um, but, and so again, we, we, um, I remember walking with my mom, your grandmother and her friend to the, um, Dominican bakery, and we would get fresh bread on Saturday mornings. And then we had the Greek, um, restaurant that still exist, uh, where we would go not frequently, but periodically, um, to have a Euro or, um, a gyro I think is how most people pronounce it. Um, and, and so we just had a very diverse background, but at the same time as we approached, um, as I approached my teen years, um, there was clearly a shift, uh, in terms of, uh, drug use, um, and the way in which, um, the influx of, of narcotics, uh, into, um, our community just changed the landscape, um, to the extent that when I left to go to undergraduate school in Atlanta and returned, maybe my sophomore summer, I remember the difference, right. Um, so we're talking, uh, 87 or so, and that's when the crack epidemic, um, uh, really kinda hit hard at the same time that hip hop is beginning to, um, kind of move across the world. Right. So that's my memory, my upbringing, the shift, um, from the, just the beauty to the influx of something that was, was, was sort of ugly. Right,

Speaker 1: 6:09

Right. And just thinking back on, you know, yourself and uncle Steven as well, and like how highly you all speak of the south Bronx, and from my perspective, growing up, it's like, I didn't have that understanding of the south Bronx being such a beautiful place, but all that I know from what you guys say, there was so much community back in those days, so much togetherness and you all still go back. I mean, I know uncle Steven does when you more so, but you go back when you can to still show love and to be a part of that community. So from my perspective, that's a really beautiful thing to see, because growing up in the nineties, after, you know, the, the crack epidemic really took full force, that's not, you know, the understanding that I have of the Bronx. And so obviously growing up, being a teenager during those times, did you already have in mind that you were going to study social?

Speaker 2: 7:06

No. Um, uh, during the eighties, the area of work that was promoted was either medicine, um, stem. So that was a very beginning of engineering being really, uh, promoted at least in our communities. Um, and then there was business. And so frankly, my goal was to enter public relations at the time. And I'm blanking on her name. Uh, Terry, maybe I can't remember her name, but Terry was her first name. And she was like, the first black woman owned a PR firm in New York. It was huge. She had all of these contracts and I said, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take over Terry's farm. Right. And so when I left New York to attend Clark Atlanta, because Clark Atlanta had such a significant communications, uh, mass media arts program, a spike Lee went through that program, even though he's a Morehouse alum, he had to take off his classes at Clark. Um, uh, we, uh, that's w that was my goal about maybe a year and a half in, I decided to do public affairs, right? So that's working, um, in marketing, governmental ideas and issues and shifting the way that people understood what the government is. And so in my senior year, I had an internship for Kerry steel pits. Children's home. It was the first black, uh, orphanage in Atlanta. And I spent more time in the group homes and the, the physical homes that it was literally a campus with, with homes where children were housed. Um, I spent more time volunteering in the homes than I did writing up the, uh, press release, right. That I was supposed to be responsible for. And, and so, no, I still graduated with a degree in public relations, actually, a dual major public relations and political science. Um, I decided that I was more moved by the direct work, um, came back to New York, uh, after graduation, um, in the midst of the epidemic and, um, began working in child protective work, um, yeah. And came home to family members who were addicted. And, and it was just, um, and I remember my younger brother, your uncle Steven, um, saying to me, when they met me, I drove a, you a new haul truck, um, back. And when he, and, and, and my dad met me, um, Steven said to me, um, you're not going to know, like, basically preparing me for the neighborhood. Like, you're not going to know it. And literally people were moving around. Like I explain it in my classes like zombies. Wow. You know, the women who were the, you know, the pretty older girls that you always looked up to. And, um, they weren't so pretty anymore and they weren't moving in the same way. And, um, the, the smart, you know, savvy guys who were always fly, I don't use that term anymore. Do y'all fly, but anyway, Um, and so, um, those, those guys were not the same anymore. And the people who were able to stabilize where the people who were, um, what I call, um, underground, um, economic economists, the folks who were participating in sales, those are the people who were able to stabilize. They were not, um, as, uh, negatively impacted as the folks who were using. So, um, that, that was the shift.

Speaker 1: 10:56

It sounds like, you know, you saw what was happening in your own community and that had had a direct impact, um, on your trajectory for your career. So what, what did you do afterwards to kind of begin your, uh, your social work career for the community?

Speaker 2: 11:19

So I've worked for, um, Defax so department of family and children's services, um, right in the Bronx and the west Bronx. Um, but I was a child protective worker, um, and was removing children left and right. Um, I mean, it was significant. Um, but at the same time, I was able to see the impact of family, right. So, um, in the way that people typically understand the removal, you know, you see it, you see children being removed and being placed in group homes or being, um, in these arbitrary restorative spaces. But what I saw was, or at least, uh, my supervisor, who was exceptionally conscious, and I didn't see it at the time, but she made every effort to make sure that we were finding family members and we weren't just sticking kids with whomever was available. And so I'm in, this was a predecessor to what we now call family preservation and family placements. There wasn't even a term for that at that time, but, but she would force us where it would be easy for us just to find a home and put a child in. We would be up with children for 48 hours because she forced us to find, you know, aunts, uncles, grandparents, who would, um, who would clearly be a less of a disruption in the child's life.

Speaker 1: 12:47

Yeah. It's good that you mentioned that because I think a lot of times, you know, when it comes to child protective services and any type of body, that's similar to that by state, it kind of has a negative connotation a lot of times. And we do know that perhaps your story is one of the better ones from individuals who really cared about the communities, because, um, even from what I've seen based on, like, I never had to go through that necessarily, but I have friends that did, and, you know, the critique a lot of times it's that those bodies break up black families and can be destructive to black families. So, you know, even though I'm definitely glad to hear that you had a supervisor that was, you know, champion keeping families together, what do you have to say about, you know, maybe the situations in which, you know, there are individuals working within social work, who, for whatever reason can't prioritize, keeping the family together, what do you have to say about those?

Speaker 2: 13:54

So, so structurally that is the it's beyond social work. It really is, um, the structure of this country, right? Those families that are marginalized are typically those families who, um, have their origins in places where people were black and brown. I mean, it's, it's direct, right? It's clear. Um, and so we, we exist within a structure that is not set up to serve us, right? Social work exists in a structure that was not set up to serve black and brown folk. First second, since 1860, maybe a little earlier, there have always been parallel systems, right? Because early on the earliest social welfare systems did not serve black and brown folk, right. They served white children and from juvenile justice to orphanages, those were not set up to serve black and brown folks at the time African-American and indigenous. Right. And so, and, and to some extent, um, uh, people of Asian ancestry, because Asian folks have been here, you know, Chinese folks have been here since the 18 hundreds. So those systems were not set up to serve those groups all along. African-Americans have created parallel systems to serve the community. So, so unfortunately, and, and, and some people will not like to hear this integration diminished the ways in which black and brown families were served, right. When, when, when, when the association of colored women's clubs who work classist, to be sure when they served folk, when they serve black folk, they served them with, with respect and with the energy that was necessary to, to kind of redevelop families. Um, when we begin to become integrated into the broader systems, black and brown families begin to experience a diminished value, um, a presumption of deficiency, right. Without identification of strengths. And so there is something to be said for understanding that, um, some of the, what some of what we fought for didn't serve us, right? So we've always had, I have been blessed to always be, um, either supervised or managed and to become a manager that, that puts the needs and wellbeing and worthiness of black and brown folks above all else, right. Respecting the, the, the nature of those families and those children and those women, um, partially, and I don't want to get ahead of myself, but partially because of the way that the scent, the way I was centered in my family and community,

Speaker 1: 17:04

I know from personally knowing you that your social work extends beyond the bounds of the United States, I've as, from as young as I can remember, there's always been like, oh, Anthony's is going to Africa or Denise, Denise's going overseas. When did that begin? And, you know, give the listeners a bit of a background on some of the work that you've done internationally to serve the broader Pan-African communities.

Speaker 2: 17:30

I can always point to some elder black woman has helped me to concretize my, my responsibility. And so Dr. Dorinda on the lemon Mae was, um, one of the faculty members during my, um, uh, doctoral program. And she been traveling, uh, across the continent of Africa for decades at the point that I met her and she provided opportunities to some select students to conduct research. Um, and so my first time, uh, outside of the country, wasn't to the Caribbean as a Canada light mode, but most folks it was Uganda, um, at 23. And, um, wow. There though, let me say east Africa, isn't my favorite place to say that, But, but, but, but while there I connected with, um, uh, some medical doctors and, um, some educators, uh, we, our, our, my goal at the time was to look at how people were talking about and training around HIV aids, STD protection, and avoidance. Um, and so we were working with schools, Muslim schools, Christian schools, um, and had the opportunity to, um, really recognize the connections right. For the first time. Um, probably, uh, in a way that was, that was concretized. Right. You know, I think I was clear, my mother, we grew up, you know, my grandma, even though most people don't talk about it, we went to the, like the African liberation bookstore every Sunday. Um, you know, she went to, um, Malcolm king, um, uh, after she went to Lincoln university. So she, she was clearly keeping us centered, um, in, in blackness. Right. Um, but that was the first time that I really consciously was able to make the connection between, um, um, or among the diasphoric peoples of the world, um, African diasporic people of the world. Um, so yeah, that, that's when it started. And, um, I have continued, um, in that vein, uh, across the diaspora, you know, Eastern Africa, Western Africa, um, uh, the Caribbean central America, south America, um, always looking at the ways in which, um, uh, women and girls of African ancestry, um, uh, can live their, be their best selves. Right,

Speaker 1: 20:14

Right. Absolutely. And, you know, kind of bringing it to current, what are some of the changes that you've noticed socially for the adolescent girls and Africa, and here, you know, are there any parallels or differences?

Speaker 2: 20:33

So there are certainly parallels because of social media, right. And because of the ways in which media presents, um, women and girls, and now the access that everyone has to that. Um, and so frankly, um, my focus right now is on west Africa though. I'll be in Eastern Africa and Ethiopia next year, this time, um, it is, my focus has always been central and west. And so when you look at some of the challenges, it remains education, access to education, it remains, um, identifying the roles that have been kind of restrictive for black girls. So today it's an issue of class. If you are a poor, right. In, in some of the continental African countries, it's less likely that you're going to pursue your education past primary school, um, because it costs it's not free. Right. And so if you know, what decisions do parents make, do they send the son or do they send the daughter? What is the better return on investment? You understand that process, right? If I send the daughter, um, what are her possibilities here to then be able to contribute to and take care of the family? If I send the son, his possibilities has access, um, might be, um, he might have more access to opportunities, right? So it's, it's about making choices. There are organizations, one of which I'm affiliated with, um, uh, uh, bridge to, uh, Africa bridge to connection, I think is what it's called, but the sister is, um, um, African-American but resides in Ghana and, um, does a lot of work to send funds, to request funds so that young women can go to school, complete secondary school, and then go on to post-secondary if that is their desire, along with training and, and giving access to books and reading and all of that. So, so there are organizations that are supporting that, but it doesn't look the same everywhere. Right. So, you know, in Nigeria, girls are educated, um, it's not a problem. Um, but some of the challenges have to do with rural dwellers as opposed to urban dwellers. And so then it becomes an issue. Again, it's still class, but it becomes an issue of regionality, um, whether or not you have access to education and other opportunities because education formal education, isn't always the opportunity. That's the other piece is we, we put a westernized, um, um, lens through and through which we see what's possible. And it isn't always that. So, um, it is not always necessary. So again, we, um, we do have some parallels, black girls though in the United States will always be at the forefront of, of my concern. Um, we, I just participated in a training yesterday where they talked about a whole of the challenges that black girls experience because of what people expect, right. People expect them to be more mature, you know, at 10, right. They expect them not to cry. They expect them not to be silly. They expect them to know more about sex. They expect them like they have all these expectations of black girls, which then adultified them, um, and then limits what, um, what they can experience and how they can grow. And it's also the reason that they get in trouble more at school because teachers have the expectation that they're going to be more mature. So they at nine should be able to sit still for two hours. Right. Um, they shouldn't be Joe the jokester of the class, right. Because they're supposed to be more mature than other kids, their age. Um, so there, there are all of these challenges that exist and may differ. There are some parallels, but there are some significant differences. And it's the reason why we can't put blankets solutions or apply blanket solutions across.

Speaker 1: 24:47

And it's good that you mentioned that because a lot of times we think that maybe just like throwing money to, you know, an organization will fix it, but when it comes to Pan-Africanism and just blackness as a whole, there's a whole spectrum of us and how we exist. And so we need to be very particular to, you know, the country, the ethnicity and the communities that exist within those specific places. Um, now bringing it to very current, I guess, into the United States front, how have you seen the pandemic impact the line of social work and even the issues that, you know, the communities of color face, do you feel like there, do you feel like certain things have gotten better? Do you feel like certain things have gotten worse and yeah, let's start from there.

Speaker 2: 25:44

So I, I think frankly, some things have gotten better, right? The isolation has forced folk to begin to think about their pathways, right. And so I've seen so many businesses open up during this, this last year and a half, um, from people doing hair to folk, um, you know, opening up their auto, uh, mechanic businesses to, um, folk creating products, um, uh, people gardening and, and, and selling their, their, uh, their fruits and vegetables. And it's just been amazing to watch it because people have had an opportunity to, to sit back and think a little bit. They weren't continuing to, to move. You couldn't move. Right. So to have to sit with yourself and begin to process where you are and who you are and who you are, um, uh, re uh, forced, I think, uh, some, um, conceptualization of what is next, right? This showed us that we couldn't rely on what we thought we could rely on for the last 30 years. Right. Nothing stays the same. So, so that's, that's the good part that people really have begun to think through, um, who they are and what they offer to the world. Um, I watched in my community, as people were taking care of each other, I, I live dually in two communities and one in a rural community. And then one in a, a very urban Southern, um, community and people were taking care of one, another checking on older folks, taking them food, because they realized they couldn't go to the grocery store, dropping it off on the door step so that they did. Right. So I saw that and, and I think it, it, it brought us back to ourselves, right. Um, uh, one of my friends, uh, Yaba Blake always says everywhere, everywhere we go, there we are. But sometimes we got to look for ourselves in order to find ourselves. And so I think it brought us back to ourselves in terms of social work. It has been a traumatic year and a half because the people who we serve, um, were already disconnected and isolated in traditional times. So to move from that to severe forced isolation, where you are now having to receive your therapy through tele-health when even the folks providing the tele-health, don't really know how to do that well. Right. Um, and, or you are now, you don't necessarily have access to your support system. Um, if you had them, um, trying to figure out, so someone who's already struggling, emotionally having to sit with themselves, isn't always a positive, um, experience, right. Um, particularly if they've not managed some of the more detrimental aspects of their emotional health. So, um, there, there have been some challenges, students, you know, I'm an educator, um, students who are struggling, you know, everyone is, was rushing to do online education where people chose to, to, to, to be in traditional classes for a reason, right. You can, there are tons of schools that offer fully online programs. People choose traditional universities because they want traditional educational experiences. And so to be forced to enter into an online environment, didn't really, wasn't, it wasn't really a positive experience for a number of students. Right. And so, um, students struggled, we saw an increase in suicide rates, right. Not attempts, but actually success. Right. Um, and so, you know, that speaks to some of the challenges around managing emotional issues during this, this period. So for social work, it's been, um, it's been something I'm on a board of the state, uh, rather one of the county offices of the human race, uh, department of human resources. And, um, they talked about losing half of their workers just half, because they still had to go into people's homes right. During this pandemic. Um, so social work was hit a little hard, um, uh, as a profession. Um, but I, I feel like we're recovering now, uh, and, and, and able to kind of recognize that we can get through most things, um, as a profession, but we're still, we're still on the climb up. We're not at the pinnacle yet. We're still climbing back up.

Speaker 1: 30:38

What do you think we can do within our own communities outside of the line of social work? And you kind of alluded to that earlier on in the conversation where we kind of have like parallel systems, you know, black systems, along with the larger system that we work within. Do you see that coming back? And, um, you mentioned communities being stronger as a result of the pandemic, I guess, what can we do, or what would you like to see happen within our own community,

Speaker 2: 31:07

To your point around, um, self uplift, which is what we call it in social work, um, community uplift, um, self-help we never left it. It's just then narrow in that there are, there's the association of black social workers, the, um, association of blacks and criminal justice, the association of black psychologists, all of whom have these, um, community arms that create opportunities to serve black and brown communities. Um, I have a conference call tomorrow, and it's the, um, I'm always blanking on the titles of organizations. And basically it's a conglomerate of all of the, um, the black organizations that serve, do direct service. And we have a speaker coming from Haiti to talk about some of the needs on the ground in Haiti. Right. Um, so these organizations exist. What has to happen though? Is that the folk who are the, the, uh, neighborhood associations, um, churches, um, um, mosques, uh, that they return to the community, right? We've become so insular. It used to be that those entities were open. It didn't matter whether you were Muslim or Christian, if you had needs, then you were able to access those spaces, but we've become insular. And, and again, I I'm, I'm going back to integration when you begin to, when you are, my dad used to say, if you, if you jump in a pink pen, you go act like the pigs, right? So when you become, um, and he used some profanity, but I won't use that. But, but if you, if you, if you, if you continue to align yourself with, um, organizations and entities that, um, that don't have your best interest in heart, you're going to start performing like them. You're going to start behaving like them. And we can't do that. We, we, we, we, we're not in a space yet. You know, people love to integrate like, woo, right? Like it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, um, a prize that we were working for. But while we're doing that, we begin to turn our backs on close our eyes to ignore the issues and concerns of marginalized people who we are. It doesn't matter that we're at the top of the ladder, looking down at the rest of the marginalized folk. We're still a part of that group. If it doesn't matter, if you have$2.5 billion, um, accessible, when you walk into Bloomingdale's, they're still following you with the camera, right. Um, if you, if you have 4.5 billion in your account, and, and you, um, someone calls the police and it was a white person who, um, caused the problem when the police arrived, they're pulling a gun on you. Like, that's, that's the reality. So we have to begin to return to our communities, not in the missionary way that I see people do that makes me kind of nauseous. Um, I'm talking about recognizing the connection, recognizing that. And, and it's another thing that my dad used to say. Um, I would come, he owned a barbershop in, in, in Harlem on a hundred and 16th street. And, um, I would come by every afternoon, like I, from a summer job or whatever. And there was always this man who was clearly involved with the alcohol pretty deeply, um, we would have cleaning his windows or washing his truck, and I would come in and I would turn my nose up. And, and I would say, you know, they have bias. You always hear him say, you know, what are you talking about? And I said, well, why can't he just, ah, he smells and he, and I would just, you know, do me. Right. And, and he said, look, um, he is just, but for the grace of God, right. That could be me, um, him or I, um, and if I don't give him an opportunity to earn, he'll like, I'll be the victim next. Right. I'm gonna make sure that I, that he has what he needs. Right. Cause that's a protection for the neighborhood.

Speaker 1: 35:40

Right.

Speaker 2: 35:42

Right. So, so if the least of us a good, then that means everyone's good. And so we have to begin to rethink how we see folk. When I tell people where my house is in the city, they're like, oh, you know, really? Yes, really, but you know what, no one is breaking into my house because you know, my community looks out for one another. Um, um, I tell this story all the time I was, um, um, at the house and my daughter, uh, was coming out the house and a bird flew in the house. Two birds flew in the house and she's not afraid of animals. So she just kind of ducked and moved out the way. And the birds flew in and I was screaming at the top of my lungs cause they were birds in a confined space and burns, burns are mean. And, um, and so I came out and the guys across the street, um, they just poured out of the home, you know, like, what's wrong, what's what's going on. And I said, there's a bird. He was like, what? But he still sent someone in to get the birds out. Right. That's the kind of community I'm in now had I been on the east side of Montgomery, right? No one would've ever come out. They might've called the police, but they would have, would not have come to assist me. Right. Community is, is what we make community. And so if, if we recognize our connection to everyone in our community, then we can help lift folk up. We can help it. It doesn't, it, all it takes is maybe sometimes a word. Sometimes it might be financial support. Sometimes it might be advocacy or connection, right. But we have the capacity to do what we need. We are who we need, what we need. And if we can only clearly conceptualize what it is our community is, and then what we could be, then we can do everything we need. We can be,

Speaker 1: 37:53

I completely agree. And that's a part of why this podcast exists to in a way, bring the community together because we're so vast. And we're definitely out here. And I really love what you mentioned because it's not something that you really see in at least the Northeast part of the United States, or even in certain parts of the west coast. But I do love that the south has that, that sense of community. And from what I understand, it sounds like it's our turn to be a bit, you know, insular and focus on ourselves and support one another. And you can do that through a number of ways just by, you know, showing up to help one another and need before we, you know, go outside to the broader community and ask there, it could be financial support. It could be a smile, a hello, you know, that's something you don't really still see or hear in the Northeast part of the states. And, um, you know, just being there for one another and creating that ecosystem for ourselves is definitely going to get us there and I could not agree anymore. And I really appreciate what you shared as far as your background, the more important pieces us coming together to be of service to one another.

Speaker 2: 39:08

And as I said earlier, it is our fault for mimicking structures that do not care about us. Right. And we continue to do it today. You know, as soon as you get a better job, you move into a different neighborhood. Right? The reason that our neighborhoods were so strong previously is because they were intra group, right? Yes. There was a doctor and a bus driver living on the same street on 130 first, right. There was the minister. There was the, the, the, um, dry cleaners owner. There was when, when grandma, when, when my mother talks about her street, right, there was the person who, who, um, her mother who was a, um, um, a housekeeper, um, uh, and then her best friend's dad who owned the dry cleaners. Right? And then the, the lady down the street who was, uh, her mother's best friend who owned the forest shop, right? It was, we were connected, there was no separation. And so we had to contribute to everyone in our community. There was no choice. And when I say contribute, I'm not talking about financial contributions necessarily. I'm saying that we were connected right. In our communities in ways that were not now, I'm not glorifying that time. I'm just saying that there are some structures and some, some models for us that already exist.

Speaker 1: 40:51

I can agree with that. And we can apply those to the current day. I think that with technology and the pandemic, people have moved around. So, you know, I would love to see a black wall street scenario where we're all in the same communities and contributing to that local economy. It may be a bit harder to achieve in this day and age that we're in, where you can kind of work from anywhere. So there may not be as much of an incentive for someone to stay in their local community. But I definitely agree that, you know, a lot of times when people get more women, people get better opportunities, they kind of leave the community.

Speaker 2: 41:26

The piece that personally, I feel like we need to work on black wall street. What we don't have is black wall streets, commitment to the rest of black street. The other side of black wall street is ensuring that those folks continue to commit to and serve the rest of the black community. That right.

Speaker 1: 41:45

That's it, listen, that is the truest thing that could be said. And yes, I couldn't agree more in the fact that, you know, we sometimes turned a blind eye to those of us who look like us, but may not be in the same positions as us or situations as us or live the same lives as us. And we can't, um, turn a blind eye to those folks because if they're not good, we're not good. I think that's a great point to kind of round this out is we have to, as a community focus on all of the individuals within that community, whether they're the poorest of poor or the richest of rich, because the only way it's going to happen we're will advance and, and, and have the, uh, I guess the, the power and influence that we want to make real impacts and decisions. If we take care of the individuals who are not being served at this time as well. So with that, I've definitely enjoyed this conversation, learned a lot about social work, you your background. And, um, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast. Thank you for having me. And there you have it, guys. I hope that this conversation has been great for your spirit has been motivating, invigorating or enlightening in some way, if you've enjoyed what you listened to, you can reach out to Dr. Davis made directly by finding the about section of this podcast episode, where her email will be located in that section. You can also find ways to support this podcast and help us find the rest of our tribe. You can start off by reading this with five stars on your directory of choice, or you can buy us a coffees in the bias of coffee link. So thank you so much for your time. And until next time, make sure we take care of yourselves. Peace.